I'm interested in conversations about and I want to talk about
Know exactly what you want?
Show search

Notification

Error

123>

Spirituality and diet

User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 10:48

I'm very much a newcomer - diagnosed Aug 2018 Gleason 7 (4+3) and immediately on HT - but also pulling into the picture spiritual and dietary practices (particularly fasting) which have helped me with other medical issues. I'd be very interested to hear the experiences of forum members further down the line than me on this journey.

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 08:58
That is insulting, Heenan - what right do you have to say that I or anyone else here is retreating into fantasy? If the thread involved any of our Muslim or Jewish members talking about their faith, you would think twice before saying such things.

If you don't like the conversation, don't read the thread. No-one forces you to click on it.

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 16:15

Diet and stress are risk factors for many cancers plenty of evidence for that.  Once you have the cancer the evidence is less conclusive but I think fasting is a promising avenue..

User
Posted 13 Sep 2018 at 08:42

There's a journalist called Jenni Russell who wrote about her years of illness with Crohns Disease being ended by part time fasting. She wrote of someone called Dr Valter Longo who was writing a book on the subject and his meals that fooled the body into thinking it was fasting.  His work is mainly about longevity but he's worked on immune system regeneration.

Here's an extract from Jenni Russells article from 2015.  It's behind The Times paywall.

'In the last few years diabetes researchers have found that the disease can be cured by a daily 
600-calorie diet for eight weeks. Longo’s own earlier research indicates that fasting is as effective as chemotherapy in treating cancer. Combining the two, fasting just before and after treatment, increases the efficacy of chemo by up to 40 per cent while minimising side-effects. Cancer cells cope badly with being simultaneously poisoned and starved. But normal cells gain protection, because fasting closes the pathways that let toxins in. Since a fifth of all cancer-related deaths are due to the effects of chemo, this may be a major breakthrough.'

 

User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 10:48

I'm very much a newcomer - diagnosed Aug 2018 Gleason 7 (4+3) and immediately on HT - but also pulling into the picture spiritual and dietary practices (particularly fasting) which have helped me with other medical issues. I'd be very interested to hear the experiences of forum members further down the line than me on this journey.

User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 11:02
I found the mental and emotional side of diagnosis to be a lot tougher than the physical side (I had no physical symptoms at all, in fact), so I can certainly see the value of practices such as meditation in coming to terms with the fact that one has cancer.

Chris

User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 18:03
Thanks francij1 - from what I'm finding on the web, about day 2/3 of a fast your body goes into ketosis (using up fat and getting energy from weak or diseased, like cancerous, cells). Up till now, I've fasted for purely spiritual reasons (prayer), and only when I wanted to. But seems like there's a medical reason too...and if it can help cut down the time of having to live with zero testosterone, so much the better :-)
User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 18:48
An interesting idea and I would like to see a study that would help show what difference this made, particularly for those with a PCa diagnosis which would be the most of men on this forum.

Please keep in regular contact. Anything that can help is worth consideration

Barry
User
Posted 13 Sep 2018 at 10:24

It's there in the listed side-effects for Prostap; sometimes living without testosterone can make you see life and the world more negatively than usual.
Long before my diagnosis, someone told us about “extreme thankfulness”. My wife and I did it then from time to time, but now it's a regular part of our battle for healing, at every level.
“Put your right hand on your heart. (There are neurons in the heart – and in the gut, as well as in the brain - and you want them on board). Now it's finding 3 things that you are really thankful for. Might be an experience, a person, a relationship, a surprise, a place, a song, an idea, a food or drink item (like the glass of red wine I had last night)...whatever has recently floated your boat.
Start with the first one. Take it steady. Relive the experience, remember or visualise the person or place. Do it as vividly as you can and then express your thankfulness (preferably aloud) whatever way is right for you. And then the 2nd one...
If you're doing this with another person, take the time to share with them your 3 things and anything that came out of your time of thankfulness".

Edited by member 13 Sep 2018 at 13:11  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 04 Oct 2018 at 16:50
Haven't been able to discuss this medically with anyone, but the PSA level dropped from 55 to 5.6 in a month. The nurse said it was "a very good response" but whether this is due to "zero testosterone" or fasting, fitness training and other things I don't know.
User
Posted 04 Oct 2018 at 18:05
That's the HT. Is there any evidence to suggest that fasting would reduce prostate activity?

Chris

User
Posted 05 Oct 2018 at 06:47

Sums it up:
https://sperlingprostatecenter.com/the-excitement-of-intermittent-fasting-and-you-thought-not-eating-was-boring/

 

I have binned breakfast to try and get ketatosis every day but you have to watch the urge to eat unhealthy !!

User
Posted 05 Oct 2018 at 08:23

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I found the mental and emotional side of diagnosis to be a lot tougher than the physical side (I had no physical symptoms at all, in fact), so I can certainly see the value of practices such as meditation in coming to terms with the fact that one has cancer.

Chris

 

Ditto to this. 

For the medical issues, I just relied on the advice given to me by the wonderful staff of the NHS. I used my energy to help me keep my emotions in check, so I rarely let my imagination run riot. For meditation I would perhaps substitute mindfulness (similar but different). It's just making sure I am aware of my thoughts and turning them positive.

I'm a bit sceptical of fasting, I'd rather keep my strength up, by eating sensibly, but each to their own. 

User
Posted 08 Oct 2018 at 08:50

Thanks Chris for your question, which has made me dig a bit deeper as I work through how best to fight the stuff showing up on my scan. A bit technical, but this summarises what I found
An overview on the role of autophagy in cancer therapy

Autophagy is a highly regulated catabolic process through which cells recycle their own constituents by delivering them into lysosomes. Several studies have demonstrated that autophagy plays a wide variety of physiological and pathophysiological roles in cells. In cancer, autophagy has been described to have paradoxical roles, acting both as tumor suppressor and as tumor promoter. In particular, it may exert different functions in response to cancer therapy, causing cancer resistance or increasing sensitivity to chemotherapeutic drugs and radiation. Therefore, autophagy could provide new means for the enhancement of antitumor drugs and radiation effectiveness.”

So it ain't so simple... My first reaction to the diagnosis was to go on a wilderness trek and a 3 day fast. It was good and what I needed to do at the time.
But now I'm pretty sure that careful consideration is needed about autophagy.
As a thinker, it would take a lot to shift me from seeing us all as “Universe experiencing Itself”. That includes the NHS and medical expertise, but my personal conscious and unconscious experience of my physical body is also “part of the great scheme of things”.

So for me, fasting as part of the fight will be directed by what some would call “my inner voice” and what I “hear” arising out of the prayer and meditation I have been in since I was a teenager.

Edited by member 08 Oct 2018 at 08:52  | Reason: bold and layout

User
Posted 07 Jun 2019 at 10:56

Hi Barcud/David.

This testimony relates back to your original theme on this thread of fasting. I have just had my second session of chemotherapy. Following my first session I experienced 9 bad days of a racing heart, throbbing head, extreme fatigue, and almost total loss of taste. I believe that some of this was connected to the dosage of steroids that were administered alongside docetaxel and some was also possibly the docetaxel dosage itself. After 9 days I began to 'recover'. I reported this back to my oncologist who reduced both dosages slightly. Being a guitarist, I was also extremely worried by the neuropathy symptoms that I was experiencing. I did a bit of research and discovered that fasting was recommended as a possible method of alleviating chemotherapy side effects. Something released by the brain in reaction to food deprivation apparently causes healthy cells to temporarily shut down their ability to ingest anything. This allegedly to some extent protects them from cancer drugs. Cancer cells apparently don't shut down in the same way and continue to be affected. Hypothetical result, far fewer chemotherapy side effects. Well, I am now on day 3 of my second chemotherapy cycle and my experience of this cycle so far has been markedly different. Whereas I spent large chunks of the first three days of my last chemo round in bed exhausted I feel fine this time. No extreme lethargy, no heart racing, no thumping head, no loss of taste. So far, so good. I have also learnt a fair amount about myself. I wasn't at all sure that I'd be able to fast, that I'd have the mental strength. I was also fearful that it would prove very uncomfortable. In the practice of it it actually presented very few problems. I lived on water and unsweetened ginger tea and was fine. I will keep you in the loop as to how this cycle progresses, but so far, the results have been startlingly good.

Very best wishes,

Jonathan x

User
Posted 07 Jun 2019 at 11:05

That's brilliant Jonathan - thanks for sharing it openly. I'm sure it will encourage others on chemo. With you every way I can be in this chemo - I'll message you soon - David x

User
Posted 19 Jul 2019 at 21:26
I've read through this thread with interest. Pre diagnosis I rarely went to church then not long after the news one of those people who come into your life and then before leaving asked me to go to church (which actually lead to confirmation - to my faith not church). At church the unshockable Ray, who was seriously not going ahead with treatment (looking back how silly), froze to the spot when it seemed the earth had stooped with the message in no uncertain terms you will have treatment. I think you might regard that as faith stepping in? Do I or just co-incidence and emotions? That's the background to my asking, of which I don't intend to offend, is whilst I feel its right to pray for someone else its not so for yourself. I gather you might have a different view to that?.

Ray

User
Posted 04 Sep 2019 at 16:24

Hi

Good to hear of those who have a faith in God, as I do.  God is good, and He is able to do great things.  His peace sustains me in the midst of all the cancer stuff going on.

User
Posted 04 Sep 2019 at 21:31
Some of us don't think it is drivel. The title of the thread should be a bit of an indicator that the content might be something you don't need to read?
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 04 Sep 2019 at 21:34
We’re here to support one another, Jasper. If someone finds their religious faith to be a useful support mechanism, I’m not going to say anything about that, whatever my personal opinion about it may be.

Best wishes,

Chris

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 12:23
Well said, Lyn. I have no religious faith myself, but if such faith brings people strength and comfort, that can only be a good thing.

All the best,

Chris

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 14:59
It is 47 weeks since any meaningful information regarding diet was included on this thread 🤔
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 05 Sep 2019 at 15:04
Even atheists live in hope!
User
Posted 08 Sep 2019 at 22:05
I’m doing well, thank you. Six months since I finished RT and no major side-effects.

Best wishes,

Chris

Show Most Thanked Posts
User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 11:02
I found the mental and emotional side of diagnosis to be a lot tougher than the physical side (I had no physical symptoms at all, in fact), so I can certainly see the value of practices such as meditation in coming to terms with the fact that one has cancer.

Chris

User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 16:15

Diet and stress are risk factors for many cancers plenty of evidence for that.  Once you have the cancer the evidence is less conclusive but I think fasting is a promising avenue..

User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 18:03
Thanks francij1 - from what I'm finding on the web, about day 2/3 of a fast your body goes into ketosis (using up fat and getting energy from weak or diseased, like cancerous, cells). Up till now, I've fasted for purely spiritual reasons (prayer), and only when I wanted to. But seems like there's a medical reason too...and if it can help cut down the time of having to live with zero testosterone, so much the better :-)
User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 18:48
An interesting idea and I would like to see a study that would help show what difference this made, particularly for those with a PCa diagnosis which would be the most of men on this forum.

Please keep in regular contact. Anything that can help is worth consideration

Barry
User
Posted 12 Sep 2018 at 19:55
Thanks Barry, I'll let you know more after my next PSA (October)
User
Posted 13 Sep 2018 at 08:42

There's a journalist called Jenni Russell who wrote about her years of illness with Crohns Disease being ended by part time fasting. She wrote of someone called Dr Valter Longo who was writing a book on the subject and his meals that fooled the body into thinking it was fasting.  His work is mainly about longevity but he's worked on immune system regeneration.

Here's an extract from Jenni Russells article from 2015.  It's behind The Times paywall.

'In the last few years diabetes researchers have found that the disease can be cured by a daily 
600-calorie diet for eight weeks. Longo’s own earlier research indicates that fasting is as effective as chemotherapy in treating cancer. Combining the two, fasting just before and after treatment, increases the efficacy of chemo by up to 40 per cent while minimising side-effects. Cancer cells cope badly with being simultaneously poisoned and starved. But normal cells gain protection, because fasting closes the pathways that let toxins in. Since a fifth of all cancer-related deaths are due to the effects of chemo, this may be a major breakthrough.'

 

User
Posted 13 Sep 2018 at 08:58
Re fasting and chemo - is there any real hard evidence?
User
Posted 13 Sep 2018 at 09:51

Thanks Peter - I'm following my inner voice on fasting in this present situation, like I have all my adult life, but really helpful to have the detail in your post. I'll look into this 600 cal/day diet - I'm due for an oncology consultation so I'll see what they say about it.

User
Posted 13 Sep 2018 at 10:24

It's there in the listed side-effects for Prostap; sometimes living without testosterone can make you see life and the world more negatively than usual.
Long before my diagnosis, someone told us about “extreme thankfulness”. My wife and I did it then from time to time, but now it's a regular part of our battle for healing, at every level.
“Put your right hand on your heart. (There are neurons in the heart – and in the gut, as well as in the brain - and you want them on board). Now it's finding 3 things that you are really thankful for. Might be an experience, a person, a relationship, a surprise, a place, a song, an idea, a food or drink item (like the glass of red wine I had last night)...whatever has recently floated your boat.
Start with the first one. Take it steady. Relive the experience, remember or visualise the person or place. Do it as vividly as you can and then express your thankfulness (preferably aloud) whatever way is right for you. And then the 2nd one...
If you're doing this with another person, take the time to share with them your 3 things and anything that came out of your time of thankfulness".

Edited by member 13 Sep 2018 at 13:11  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 04 Oct 2018 at 16:50
Haven't been able to discuss this medically with anyone, but the PSA level dropped from 55 to 5.6 in a month. The nurse said it was "a very good response" but whether this is due to "zero testosterone" or fasting, fitness training and other things I don't know.
User
Posted 04 Oct 2018 at 18:05
That's the HT. Is there any evidence to suggest that fasting would reduce prostate activity?

Chris

User
Posted 05 Oct 2018 at 06:47

Sums it up:
https://sperlingprostatecenter.com/the-excitement-of-intermittent-fasting-and-you-thought-not-eating-was-boring/

 

I have binned breakfast to try and get ketatosis every day but you have to watch the urge to eat unhealthy !!

User
Posted 05 Oct 2018 at 08:23

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I found the mental and emotional side of diagnosis to be a lot tougher than the physical side (I had no physical symptoms at all, in fact), so I can certainly see the value of practices such as meditation in coming to terms with the fact that one has cancer.

Chris

 

Ditto to this. 

For the medical issues, I just relied on the advice given to me by the wonderful staff of the NHS. I used my energy to help me keep my emotions in check, so I rarely let my imagination run riot. For meditation I would perhaps substitute mindfulness (similar but different). It's just making sure I am aware of my thoughts and turning them positive.

I'm a bit sceptical of fasting, I'd rather keep my strength up, by eating sensibly, but each to their own. 

User
Posted 08 Oct 2018 at 08:50

Thanks Chris for your question, which has made me dig a bit deeper as I work through how best to fight the stuff showing up on my scan. A bit technical, but this summarises what I found
An overview on the role of autophagy in cancer therapy

Autophagy is a highly regulated catabolic process through which cells recycle their own constituents by delivering them into lysosomes. Several studies have demonstrated that autophagy plays a wide variety of physiological and pathophysiological roles in cells. In cancer, autophagy has been described to have paradoxical roles, acting both as tumor suppressor and as tumor promoter. In particular, it may exert different functions in response to cancer therapy, causing cancer resistance or increasing sensitivity to chemotherapeutic drugs and radiation. Therefore, autophagy could provide new means for the enhancement of antitumor drugs and radiation effectiveness.”

So it ain't so simple... My first reaction to the diagnosis was to go on a wilderness trek and a 3 day fast. It was good and what I needed to do at the time.
But now I'm pretty sure that careful consideration is needed about autophagy.
As a thinker, it would take a lot to shift me from seeing us all as “Universe experiencing Itself”. That includes the NHS and medical expertise, but my personal conscious and unconscious experience of my physical body is also “part of the great scheme of things”.

So for me, fasting as part of the fight will be directed by what some would call “my inner voice” and what I “hear” arising out of the prayer and meditation I have been in since I was a teenager.

Edited by member 08 Oct 2018 at 08:52  | Reason: bold and layout

User
Posted 08 Oct 2018 at 09:01

Thanks francij for the link - I've copied the 6 intermittent diets to consider, as part of "listening to my inner voice"

And I'm on "no breakfast" too.

I've only ever fasted when I wanted to...and never regretted ithttps://community.prostatecanceruk.org/Scripts/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif

User
Posted 09 Oct 2018 at 08:09

There's so many alternative therapies on the web, so many conflicting imperatives and 10 minute hyped-up videos with little substantial to offer beyond an amazing book and a time-limited discount, but “Ty & Charlene” are a bit different. Transcript from a video:


Laura Bond: ...something that really surprised me in the research...is how important pleasure is in the healing paradigm... There’s a study from the University of Pittsburgh showing that pleasure, or a sense of joy, is the second most important factor for predicting cancer recovery.
So I’d advise people not to cut out completely anything that provides them with a lot of pleasure. Taking time out every day to do something that just makes you lose track of time, where you’re completely absorbed in it.
Ty Bollinger: That’s really congruent to the information that we’ve gotten from a lot of other interviewees, is that the emotional, the mental state, is very important. And so, joy, happiness, pleasure, laughter, all these things actually not only make you feel good, but they help regulate your immune system.


So it costs nothing...and it's fun. Sounds like a therapy I can live with.
For me it's music – playing/singing (alone or with others) and listening. There's so much for free on Youtube...great for exploring new composers/artists/genres. But whatever brings you pleasure and joy...it's “Doctor's Orders”.
OK this is anecdotal...you may have heard it before. A doctor tells a man he has 3 weeks to live. “The best thing you can do is to go home and watch as many funny films and TV programmes as you can”. The man does as the doctor says...and 3 weeks later he's back, symptom-free and well.
Also being around people you can laugh with*, choosing to see the funny side of things, radio and TV comedy programmes...or whatever tickles your funny bone.
https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/missing-ingredient-cancer-recovery/?mpweb=144-7351995-743469981

*Especially "snorfers" (people who snort when they laugh...and then laugh at themselves for snorting)https://community.prostatecanceruk.org/Scripts/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif

User
Posted 04 Jun 2019 at 07:36

I'm writing this post at this time for a man (or a carer) who will find it to be a step on in the process of reversing a prostate cancer diagnosis. Not to prove anything or to wind anyone up by triumphalistic claims...

It's about a year now since I peed a little bit of blood. That soon stopped, but I did what they say and the tests/scans/biopsies led to a diagnosis of Gleason 4+3. With 2 medically attested healings on me (including skin cancer) I thought: Do I have faith that God will heal me of this without conventional medicine?

I wasn't sure. I see conventional medicine anyway as part of God's healing...the issue was more about the side effects of treatment and whether they needed to be part of the journey. I felt I should stay within the NHS, so I consented to hormone therapy every 3 months with my PSA test. I was PSA 55 at the time.

The world looks a bit different without testosterone...but it still looks real good. One of the “signs that follow those who believe” in Mark 16 is to not be harmed if they drink deadly poison, so I took hold of that for injections and possible side effects. I had occasional hot flashes, but that was all.

Within 6 months the PSA was <0.1. The medics all said: That's the HT. Fair enough – they've put in all that studying and they've got the experience.

But my faith was rising and I had a FB Messenger page of folk praying for me. I had some dreams. People I prayed for felt the power of God touch them and the pain leave them instantly. The final step to coming off the HT was reading a translation from the Aramaic of John 16:23-4

 

"All things that you ask straightly and directly from inside my name you shall be given. So far you have not done this. Ask without hidden motive and be surrounded by your answer. Be enveloped by what you desire, that your gladness be full."

 

That version opened things up – I knew that was where I was at. S-----, my designated MacMillan nurse was brilliant in explaining to the medics that this old guy wasn't some religious nutter “following the teachings of his church” (though a lot of healings do happen at our church) but that he genuinely believes that he is cancer-free.

Without any mental gymnastics or white-knuckle praying I'm filled with thankfulness – to God, to those who care for me and to those who run sites like Prostate Cancer UK. Yes, sometimes negative thoughts and fears do show up (sometimes unexpectedly) but I invite them to take a hike and they move on out of my stream of consciousness PDQ. It's like having your birthday present before your birthday. It's being glad of the succession of good PSA results for the 2020s while it's still 2019...

If you're the guy this post is for, please get in touch, either publicly on this site or ask for contact details and we'll keep it private. The same for anyone who'd like me to pray for them “from a distance”. If it's not for you, then thanks for reading it and if my thinking doesn't fit with yours, be sure that no offence was intended - David

User
Posted 07 Jun 2019 at 10:56

Hi Barcud/David.

This testimony relates back to your original theme on this thread of fasting. I have just had my second session of chemotherapy. Following my first session I experienced 9 bad days of a racing heart, throbbing head, extreme fatigue, and almost total loss of taste. I believe that some of this was connected to the dosage of steroids that were administered alongside docetaxel and some was also possibly the docetaxel dosage itself. After 9 days I began to 'recover'. I reported this back to my oncologist who reduced both dosages slightly. Being a guitarist, I was also extremely worried by the neuropathy symptoms that I was experiencing. I did a bit of research and discovered that fasting was recommended as a possible method of alleviating chemotherapy side effects. Something released by the brain in reaction to food deprivation apparently causes healthy cells to temporarily shut down their ability to ingest anything. This allegedly to some extent protects them from cancer drugs. Cancer cells apparently don't shut down in the same way and continue to be affected. Hypothetical result, far fewer chemotherapy side effects. Well, I am now on day 3 of my second chemotherapy cycle and my experience of this cycle so far has been markedly different. Whereas I spent large chunks of the first three days of my last chemo round in bed exhausted I feel fine this time. No extreme lethargy, no heart racing, no thumping head, no loss of taste. So far, so good. I have also learnt a fair amount about myself. I wasn't at all sure that I'd be able to fast, that I'd have the mental strength. I was also fearful that it would prove very uncomfortable. In the practice of it it actually presented very few problems. I lived on water and unsweetened ginger tea and was fine. I will keep you in the loop as to how this cycle progresses, but so far, the results have been startlingly good.

Very best wishes,

Jonathan x

User
Posted 07 Jun 2019 at 11:05

That's brilliant Jonathan - thanks for sharing it openly. I'm sure it will encourage others on chemo. With you every way I can be in this chemo - I'll message you soon - David x

 
Forum Jump  
123>
©2025 Prostate Cancer UK