I'm interested in conversations about and I want to talk about
Know exactly what you want?
Show search

Notification

Error


HIFU, my experience

User
Posted 10 Feb 2016 at 16:25

Hi again David,

It seems the HIFU is more precisely focused whereas the ice ball formed in Cryotherapy destroys a wider area, so it MAY not require another biopsy. If you click on this link there is an interesting story by a patient who had this Cryotherapy and is prepared to be contacted if you feel this is something that might be of interest to you. http://www.ahamm.co.uk/prostate/blogdetails.htm#why-emberton

If you want to skip the videos that have been posted previously, there is more of personal experience of the blogger from Dry Climax onwards

 

Edited by member 10 Feb 2016 at 16:37  | Reason: Not specified

Barry
User
Posted 20 Aug 2016 at 00:10

Had a rather overdue telephone consultation with my urologist at UCLH yesterday morning. It seems from the recent scans that it is thought the HIFU was successful in destroying the previously found tumour within the Prostate. Also, apart from the short term discomfort of the catheter, the HIFU has had no adverse side effects. However, there is a very tiny area in the prostate that is suspicious and it is possible that a highly targeted template biopsy might be done under a local anaesthetic to check this out. I also asked the consultant if a core could be taken from the suspect node and he said he would take advice on this. The node is suspicious due to the uptake of Choline but the shape and size is the same as shown on scans going back to 2007/8. My PSA nadir post HIFU was 0.39 but this has since risen to 0.73 at the end of July 2016, so there must be some cancer cells somewhere.

Edited by member 20 Aug 2016 at 00:31  | Reason: Not specified

Barry
User
Posted 20 Aug 2016 at 12:26

Thanks for the update, Barry.

I'm not likely to ever be in the HIFU camp but it's most useful knowledge and I'm also interested in your diagnostic experiences.

Last time my onco indicated that if my next PSA rose (result will be known on 2nd Sep), he will consider another scan. He didn't say what sort and I didn't ask but I'm happy that there is some momentum.

Dave

Not "Why Me?" but "Why Not Me"?
User
Posted 20 Aug 2016 at 14:26

Hi Barry,

I'm so glad to see this update. It does look like the HIFU has been a success, although I know you'll be worried the about the PSA rise  and those remaining cancer cells.

It seems to me that we're never free of those damn cells.

Maybe (and hopefully), we'll die with those cells NOT because of them.

 

Last time I saw my oncologist, I asked a question that I'd been meaning to ask for years.

I said 'Why is it that when I come off treatment (HT) my PSA inevitably rises, sometimes over a year or 2 years to over 20.0, yet every time you put me back on treatment, it's always after thorough scans, where nothing is ever seen? Just where ARE those cancer cells hiding?'

He said he's 99% sure that they're micro-mets somewhere in my lymphatic system.

Since Zoladex hammers them down each time I return to it, it seems more and more likely that is intermittent treatment will continue doing the job for quite a few more years yet.

 

I'm convinced we both have many more years ahead of us.

 

Stay well my old friend,

And never lose your amazing pro-active attitude.

 

Love to Barbara,

 

George

User
Posted 20 Aug 2016 at 22:52

Good to hear from you George and to know that your Intermittent HT regime is still working well. It may be something I will adopt at some point but having had 8 months of Zoladex in 2007/8 and side effects, I hope to avoid returning to it for as long as possible. My consultant at UCLH said he thought I had done well to refuse it after HIFU so far and to do so for as long as I reasonably can.

Dave, hope you are given good news on 2nd September.

Barry
User
Posted 21 Aug 2016 at 09:15

I smile on reading these posts as they're like garden weeds. George's approach is like weeds on the drive every now and then out comes the Pathclear (other products are avaliable -:) .) and all is pretty much clear for a awhile - just got to keep hanging in there until a new improved product comes on-line. Whilst Barry's approach is seek out weeds wherever they hide and hit them hard with the latest products he can - may that continue until they all throw their hand in. For me I've no idea if I've got weeds but if I have provided they don't start spreading I let them be - I'm a laid back gardener.

Good luck to all

Ray

User
Posted 21 Aug 2016 at 11:28

That's a great anology, Ray.http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif

 

Yes it's just like dealing with weeds (nasty ones at that!).

 

I opt for the cheaper 1950s weedkiller because I know it will work for a year or so for me.

Barry is more your cutting edge' man and will go to infinity and beyond to find a 'state of the art' weedkiller. We need men like Barry to show us new approaches.

As has often been said, there's only one rule with PCa  - 'There are no rules'.

While Prostap is like the Gold Standard HT for some guys, it didn't agree with me at all, so it was back to the Zoly after three months.

When I once tried Casodex 150 as my HT, PSA plummeted like a stone, but the SEs were awful and I asked to come off it after 6 months.

We can only continue with what works for us as individuals, and pray that those weeds don't find a way to overcome the drugs.

 

Dave, good luck for Sept 2nd.

No matter how many years we've fought these weeds, we still worry about that next PSA result.

Just tell yourself it will be a good one.

 

All the best,

 

 

George

 

 

 

 

User
Posted 02 May 2017 at 00:25

As I have not given an udate on my HIFU since August, I thought I would do so now. In truth there is little to say. My PSA has ranged from 0.49 shortly after HIFU to 0.64 at the most recent test in February this year. There is no discernable change in my urinary frequency or urgency, although I feel the 'stream' is not quite as strong as it was in the past but probably due to weaker bladder/muscles as part of the ageing process rather than caused by the HIFU. I can say that in my case the HIFU has not added to the side effects caused by RT back in 2008 or resulted in any complication (at least so far), which I would have expected to have experienced by now if It was to happen. The procedure was a quick, easy and the pain was not for long but done by the leading team of HIFU surgeons in the UK which may have helped. How well it works in the medium to long term only time will tell but at least in the short to medium term it has certainly caused the cancer a set back!

Scans have showed there remains a suspicious area in my Prostate and possibly also in one iliac node but UCLH will neither do a further biopsy nor further radical treatment including further HIFU. (They say 2 major treatments on my Prostate in enough). Should my PSA double to 1.28 They will just put me on HT. ......... I might have other ideas about that!!!

Edited by member 25 Jul 2018 at 01:07  | Reason: Not specified

Barry
User
Posted 24 Jul 2018 at 17:36

Barry - I have recently been diagnosed with prostate cancer (Gleason 3+4) and am considering HIFU as a treatment. I've just found this very useful thread and wonder if you had any advice for someone in my position. I am also looking at radiotherapy and brachytherapy, so would be interested to hear your views on how you felt, after this time, the treatment went, side effects and so forth.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Rick

User
Posted 25 Jul 2018 at 00:57

Hi Rick,

As I said when I started this thread, HIFU can be given (to suitable men) as original radical treatment or as a salvage treatment for failed RT. (again for suitable men). In both situations the cancer should still be contained within the Prostate. Results are better if there is only a small amount of cancer and on one side only. Very few hospitals/medical facilities offer HIFU in the UK, although more are introducing it.

If a man decides to have HIFU as a primary treatment he makes the decision in preference to having a traditional treatment such as a form of surgery,radiation or even other forms of lesser established treatment such as Cryotherapy, Nanoknife IRE or FLA for example.The advantages of having this as a first line treatment are that the procedure is quickly performed with generally lesser side effects, particularly where only a small part of the Prostate, which must be accessible for the HIFU probe to focus on, needs to be ablated. It is also possible in need to repeat the HIFU. (It may be possible to have salvage Brachytherapy following failed HIFU, I didn't research this as HIFU was not my first line treatment.) Certainly, HIFU has improved over recent years but long term results are not yet well known. I believe that Brachytherapy is a more proven treatment and where appropriate can be augmented by EBRT as part of the treatment.

HIFU as salvage treatment for failed RT is a quite different situation. Usually, the man has had his full dose of RT largely to his Prostate and Prostatectomy thereafter is very difficult with high risk of incontinence and ED to boot. Therefore, if the cancer is still within the radiated Prostate, HIFU or another way of treating the Prostate with focal treatment means that it is possible to avoid HT, Chemo and other down the line treatments that work systemically, when only really the Prostate needs to be treated.

I have not added to this thread for some time now as I have posted my situation elsewhere. However, as it has now been referred to I will update. HIFU was administered where one only core of a template biopsy showed a tumour. There was some doubt about another area within the Prostate that might have cancer but this was not ablated. There was also doubt about cancer being in an iliac node. I think the operation went well in treating what was intended, However, my PSA continues to rise, albeit slowly, and a private PSMA scan has confirmed that there is a small tumour in another part of my Prostate. which I am hoping will be treated with further HIFU or if this is too difficult with Cryotherapy. UCLH are reluctant to repeat HIFU saying my Prostate has already been subjected to two radical treatments. I have a telephone appointment with them on 31st July to hopefully get a final decision on this as otherwise I will look to get this done privately---ouch! The PSMA scan showed no pelvic involvement or anywhere else outside the Prostate so why settle for HT or any other systemic treatment at this stage I argue? 

My urinary function remains as pre HIFU and nothing else has changed so far, nearly 3 years on.

Newspapers often dramatise but if correctly reported, the Professor quoted in this article and the lady doctor C M who administered my HIFU are upbeat on the subject of HIFU (High Intensity Focal Ultrasound) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5921047/Ultrasound-just-effective-surgery-radiotherapy-prostate-cancer.html

 

Edited by member 25 Jul 2018 at 01:14  | Reason: Can't get link to highlight without editing - always the same

Barry
User
Posted 25 Jul 2018 at 06:53

Thanks Barry, this is very helpful - and thanks for the link to the article. Lots to think about ...

Rick

User
Posted 03 Aug 2018 at 07:06

My husband had HIFU in 2006 as a secondary form of treatment. He had RT in 2000 and the cancer recurred in 2004.

He paid for it privately as the PCT would not fund further treatment. ********. It failed as it was subsequently discovered, by MRI, that the recurrence was in the seminal vesicle. As I understand it, cancer in this area cannot be treated.

In my area of East Surrey, HIFU is not recommended as a primary course of treatment.  It is alleged that many men have died as a consequence of having primary HIFU instead of the conventional RT. This has been widely reported in newspapers.

Edited by moderator 03 Aug 2018 at 18:46  | Reason: Named Consultant

User
Posted 03 Aug 2018 at 19:16

Hello Marianne,

It is sad that the treatment your husband had did not work for him and highly suspicious that records were not properly kept. It is also appreciated that you added to this thread in your circumstances.

It is a fact that HIFU for PCa will not treat areas beyond the Prostate. This is also true of surgery where it is often found that if the cancer has gone beyond where the knife can cut, some other form of treatment will be needed. So this does not necessarily mean that surgery or as in your husband's case HIFU was a failure if his cancer had in fact spread beyond the prostate, perhaps this because previous diagnostic scans did not show it (It has to be remembered that scans have improved greatly over recent years but still do not always show the full or possible extent of PCa even now).

I did quite a bit of research on HIFU among other treatments in 2007/8 when I was first diagnosed with PCa. I also discussed the possibility with my Consultant at the Royal Marsden, who said he would arrange an appointment for me to see the widely acknowledged expert for HIFU in the UK. However, with my initial staging from T2A upgraded to T3A after MRI, it was agreed it would not be appropriate to further consider HIFU.* It is strange that as an assiduous follower of developments in PCa and a regular newspaper reader, I have not seen allegations that men have died because they had HIFU instead of conventional RT. I would be interested to be directed to any authoritative links/studies that show this. I do recall one American surgeon saying HIFU only blistered the tumour in one patient but how well was the HIFU done and was it appropriate in that case? It should also be noted that considerable advances have taken place in recent years in the way the procedure is done and in the actual equipment.

Using an unapproved procedure is of course another matter. There was a time when HIFU could be done generally, then it was subsequently only allowed for NHS patients within studies but allowed to be done privately.

* It is ironic that due to failed RT, I was referred in 2015 to the same expert at UCLH for salvage HIFU that I would have seen in 2007. This I believe was successful in what it set out to achieve. What was NOT done as I understand it, was to treat a different area of my Prostate where cancer was suspected. I am now pressing to have this other area treated with HIFU or Cryotherapy as appropriate because my PSA continues to rise and a PSMA scan failed to show any cancer outside my Prostate but some within it.

UCLH intended to palm me off with just HT under the aegis of an oncologist in Devon. I reverted to my consultant at the Marsden and pressed by me with the Marsden's support, UCLH have arranged (eventually), to give me another MRI. Following this I was told a MDT will look at the scan and decide if they will give me further focal treatment. If they decide not to treat, I will find somewhere privately that will.

I asked the Doctor I spoke with at UCLH why when a recent PSMA scan which I sent to them, showed cancer in my Prostate they needed a follow up MRI. I was told the MRI would show the cancer more accurately.....hmmmmm.

So, the battle continues ........

Just to confirm what I have always said which is I would not try to push a man towards any particular treatment. I am only seeking further salvage treatment applicable to my own circumstances which preclude further RT to the Prostate and surgery. HIFU as a primary treatment is less well proven than RT or Brachytherapy which can extend further, even if side effects are not so severe generally with HIFU.

 

Edited by member 03 Aug 2018 at 21:18  | Reason: Not specified

Barry
User
Posted 03 Aug 2018 at 19:51

Hello Marianne,

I hope you are coping 

 

Regards Barry

User
Posted 04 Sep 2018 at 02:06

Hello Barry,

my husband had RT 15 years ago & has been pretty well since. Unfortunately the PC has returned & he’s now considering HIFU. He’s worried about side effects but your experience has been encouraging.He’s also thinking about Nanoknife - but it’s so  expensive! I hope you’ve been able to find a successful treatment & your good health continues. Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

 

 

User
Posted 04 Sep 2018 at 20:34
Hi Caveman,

Sorry your husband's PCa now requires further treatment and after so many years too. We are not shown his histology but I would assume he has a rising PSA and most probably had a scan and maybe a biopsy. To be suitable for focal treatment hubby needs his PCa to be contained within his prostate. Has his consultant said this is his situation? Has hubby discussed possible salvage treatment with focal therapy with his consultant? There are a few Hospitals that will do HIFU or Cryotherapy for NHS patients within a trial and your husband's consultant could be asked to be referred to one that does. Mine was in a trial called 'FORECAST' at UCLH. The treatment is good but the process involved was very protracted despite me chasing them a number of times. Also, their admin is terrible. The latest in a number of errors was to ask me to attend one of their London premises next month and be prepared for various tests. Fortunately, I rang to check what this involved only to be told that this was a standard letter sent by mistake and that the appointment was just a telephone one to report on my fairly recent MRI scan. Just as well I did not book trains to/from Paddington/Devon and hotel accommodation!

An alternative would be to have appropriate focal therapy privately at one of the few authorized centers.

Nanoknife (Irreversible Electroporation ) is a more recent development lacking follow up assessment as yet and available at very few places in the UK. I believe FLA is only available abroad.

Barry
User
Posted 04 Sep 2018 at 21:39

Interesting Barry. I have just read your 25th July post and realise the lady who did you HIFU is the consultant we chose to do A’s monitoring as her experience in HIFU and the TOOKAD trial was the nearest we could find to understanding a primary focal treatment following A’s FLA. 

She offered us a private HIFU treatment but was 100% supportive of our FLA choice and was happy to do the monitoring even though she hadn’t treated or initially diagnosed A.

 

small world

 

User
Posted 05 Sep 2018 at 09:11

Hi Barry, thank you for your reply. We’re actually in Franice although we too come from Devon. HIFU is available to him here & he has decided to go ahead with it - he expects to get a date in about 3 months.

( by the way- I used the name Caveman as our village is called Caves!)

User
Posted 05 Sep 2018 at 19:59
I nearly addressed reply to 'Cavewoman', lol but hope you enjoy being in 'Caves' and that the HIFU goes well. They do have a lot of experience with HIFU in France and the French so termed 'Ablatherm' probe is generally used. In the UK the American 'Sonablate' seems to be becoming more the system of choice and there are pros and cons to each, although both have been subject to refinement.

Please let us know how it goes as not many men have HIFU in the UK.

Barry
User
Posted 08 Sep 2018 at 09:56

Hi Barry, Only just seen your reply. It is a complicated subject and I appreciate your reply to mine. A lot of it is down to the care & concern you get from your consultant.

There might have been a misunderstanding with my husband's cancer. The problem I had was that after paying for HIFU and it failing, the consultant was quick to authorise an MRI to find out what was going on inside. That's when he found the cancer in the seminal vesicle. I don't know if he had been given the results of the previous MRI ? Had he read them, he would have seen that the cancer was proceeding towards the seminal vesicle. Surely this would hve resulted in him telling us not to have HIFU ?

p.s. I assume you saw Miss A at UCLH ? We saw her in August 2010, but she did not have my husband's MRI scan from May 2010 in E.Surrey, so authorised another at UCLH. This was carried out on 17th September 2010 and they discovered the cancer had spread to his kidneys and liver. UCLH kept my husband in for 12 days and did nothing but give him Morphine. He was then sent to E.Surrey where they put stents in his kidneys.

The beginning of the end.

Mar.

 
Forum Jump  
©2025 Prostate Cancer UK