Hello Louise.
I do understand what you are saying, I also understand why your other half feels like he does and I do also understand that he hates talking about it.
As others have said perhaps he doesn't realise just how much it means to you, not just the sex or lack of, but also the fact that he won't discuss it with you.
Many years ago, we went through a difficult patch, well I did - he was perfectly happy!
I couldn't make him understand what the problem was.
They weren't, if truth be told, really major things but it was the fact that he wouldn't discuss them that was causing the problem. My argument being that if these matters are trivial to you but not to me and you say you love me, why can't you address them.
It became a major thing because nothing was resolved. In the end, I sat and wrote a long letter to him, explaining how his lack of understanding was making me feel, how undervalued I felt because I wasn't important enough to him for him to sit and discuss the problems with me. It was a very honest letter and I told him exactly how I felt and exactly how he made me feel.
I left it on his pillow one morning when I went off to work.
I came home to a man who was very apologetic and had obviously had time to think in the five hours I was out.
Life got a lot better after that. Mainly because there was give and take on both sides.
Now I realise that there is a different between my then silly problems and your major ones but would it be worth it to write him a letter, expressing how much you love him and how much this lack of communication is putting a strain on that love.
There's a lot that can be written down because there is no interruption by another angry or distressed partner.
I should warn you that writing it down can be quite emotive for you, but maybe it would be therapeutic for you in any case.
There comes a time when we all have to weigh up the pros and cons of a relationship. I think the couple that manages to avoid that has been very lucky. They are probably the ones who go through a whole marriage without cross word.
I wish you both well. Your man feels he is no longer a man, certainly not the man you married. He feels less than a man and because of the strength of that feeling he cannot get his head around the fact that you will happily accept him as he is.
The sexual future to him is a long way away and might never materialise.
I know from my own man that incontinence was a bigger issue than sex but then that was because he is a lot older than yours. I'm sure he would have coped with leakage if he'd had to but it was a massive issue for him leading up to his procedure.
All the best
Sandra
We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails |
User
I'm not sure about all this. Without a doubt Louise's OH needs support with how he is or isn't coping with the SE's of having treatment for cancer. This is extremely difficult for Louise also.
Sorry Mo I think you always offer helpful advice but regarding your point 2 in your last post i really dont think that is helpful. There will be many men who may read that and worry if that is the case. I've always advocated how the emotional/psychological impact of our condition is too often overlooked. I would hate to think men may have the additional worry that their partners may look elsewhere as they have lost their sexual function.
There needs to be more support for men regarding this issue prior to and after treatment.
I can't imagine how i would feel if my wife had a sexual relationship outside our marriage. I have supported a friend who went through this and I couldn't start to explain the enormity of the devastation. I know it comes down to.personal values but in my opinion that option would be very wrong.
Bri
Edited by member 31 May 2015 at 17:36
| Reason: Not specified
User
The difference Bri is that you have faced the issue together and not excluded your other half. I have referred many times to John's fears about me doing such a thing, particularly because it happened to our lovely friend. On the wives' group (the American one not the FB one linked to this forum) there is a whole section for the wives who cope by having extramarital affairs ... generally, these are the wives of men who refuse to discuss, seek help or try to get proper treatment.
We keep saying this is a couples' disease - communication is a gift and a necessity.
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
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I agree that this is a coupes disease but at the point an extra-marital affair takes place as a result of the disease I think that link is severed.
Yes discuss with each other and point out the impact this is having. But be open about it. Resorting to secret liaisons is wrong.
Bri
User
Hi Louise,
I am one of the ladies whose late partner also wouldn't discuss anything and because of his advanced disease and the side effects of treatment, our once lovely sex life ended very quickly. I remember feeling terribly frustrated, lonely and most certainly did contemplate an affair or leaving and I also felt he was not prepared to try any form of help that might have made things better.
From the little things he did say over the months, like your husband ' you shouldn't have to put up with this' and the eventual comments about how he saw his body, it's uselessness and the embarrassment he felt over having an urethral then supra pubic catheter, the occasional leakages and the implications of the genital lymphoedema he developed, I came to resentfully understand the emotional impact the disease had on him and why he acted as he did. All the energy he had was caught up in managing some aspect or complication of the Pca.
It didn't necessarily make things easier for me, the utter sense of loss and abandonment was still there. Of course, I see it now as the effect of the disease but it was hard not to take it personally, believe me !
Other posters are right, there isn't enough awareness or support over this aspect of illness and treatment and it can be devastating.
I think that trying to persuade someone who isn't right now persuadable is unlikely to work, you can only express your honest and loving feelings and hope that your husband will maybe start to open up, it is all uncharted territory, that is the difficult thing about this illness but that is also why this forum exists, to listen and support !
Many regards, Fiona.
User
Thank you all. Everything you are saying makes me feel less alone.
I know why he is acting the way he is. I understand it too. It's the type of man he is. The problem really is that he can't see past his own problem.
Mo- thank you for your post. As I said in my previous post, I don't miss sex, I miss sex with him. So I won't be looking elsewhere for it. And should I have to manage with a non- penetrative sex marriage I will, although I don't agree this means platonic. My husband has always been stubborn (you should see his school reports from the teachers he didn't like!), so I guess it's not going to change! And I know we've been really lucky. And maybe in time he will realise this too. But he had no symptoms (went to gp to have his ears syringed, and doc offered well man check) and has gone from completely well to incontinent and impotent in six months. He doesn't feel lucky.
What is frightening me at the moment is that he isn't doing the exercises with the ved - (although he did say - in a very roundabout way- that it's getting plenty of exercise) - which might cause him to lose ability in the future. This is very in character with him. He avoids things he doesn't want to do, choosing to do them when they become imperative. This is frustrating for me as I'm the opposite! The other thing that is concerning is that he won't let me try. I really think it's the continence that's the main issue at present. I hope that as that improves (please God make it improve quicker!) there may be other improvements.
Sandra- I love your idea of a letter, and can't understand why I didn't think of it. I'm a good letter writer, and I will certainly think about this. The difficulty is getting him to read it when we both work at home and the kids are there in the evening, but it's worth a go. And you are absolutely right- it's not the lack of sex that concerns me, it's the lack of discussion.
Bri- I agree with you, it is wrong, and I wouldn't do it. Don't even want to. This is the 'for worse' bit of the marriage vows, right?
Lyn - I'm interested In your facebook group - what is it called please?
Fiona- thank you for your post - I think you are right - it's a long haul!
Today, it's as if the last two days didn't happen. He's given no indication of any problem at all. But nothing has been solved. This is also typical of him. I'm just a little scared that by the time he realises I was right (as, of course I always am!) it will be too late to repair the physical damage caused by not doing the exercises.
User
I have been almost exactly where you are - and now I am in a very different place. You will get there, somehow and at some point in time.
Put the 'by the time he realises it will be too late' idea out of your mind. Failing to use the VED now will not prevent him from ever recovering - if his nerve bundles repair then he will regain erections. Not using the pump just means that it will be smaller in girth & length when it does happen - not the end of the world when set against other problems people face.
I am not a member of the FB group but there are other wives here that are - someone will no doubt pm the link to you.
I still have all the letters I sent John - he never gave any indication that he read any of them but I know he did. It meant that I at least felt I had expressed my feelings. Sometimes I re-read them just so that I never forget how far we have come :-)
Edited by member 31 May 2015 at 22:03
| Reason: Not specified
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
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Thanks Lyn,
That's good to know.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for his remaining nerve bundle.
User
Bri
I think you have slightly misunderstood my point. I would never promote an affair as a solution and I know how many men are frightened and concerned that their wives or partners might do this. However the fact remains that if you cannot discuss things and cannot express the way things make you feel then that becomes an escape that some will seek. I am also accutely aware that some Men who have completely lost interest in sex or have become impotent following treatment think that that is perfectly OK and their wives or partners should just accept that and get on with life. There is no attempt to give any pleasure of any description that they still could if they wanted to. Some women will (and do) go many years with no sexual contact at all and be happy, some may take care of that by DIY others just spend years agonising over what they have lost and that can be harmful.
The mental anguish and anxiety of impotence is a shared thing however it comes about. I have frequently said on here that far more help should be available and easiy accessible to anyone affected by this.
The point I was trying to make and I apologise if it was poorly worded is a stubborn refusal to discuss, talk, acknowledge,share etc. because "that is just the way he is" makes sad but all too frequent reading.
I hope that those very Men who would fear their wives going and having an affair will read this and know that the majority of wives never would but the chances of that happening are massively reduced if they can do the talking and discussing and sharing things that Louise's OH is unable to at the moment.
Louise I apologise profusely to you if my words were upsetting.
Mo
User
Mo
No, you haven't upset me, I didn't read it like that.
I understand some women might find someone else to have sex with, but I'm not one of them. But as you say, it's an option some take
I just appreciate any comments from anyone. It means there's people out there listening to me rant
L xx
User
Sometimes I tell John that I might ... but he points out that I haven't actually had any offers in recent years :-)
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
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That brought back memories!
Years ago I (before PCa or anything like that) I would (half??) jokingly say I'd go on the streets but he used to tell me (half??) jokingly I'd get change out of sixpence and that was old money!
I know he didn't mean it (I hope he didn't mean it)
Good luck Louise. It's a long old road you'll be following but you will both get there in the end.
He'll come to to realise at some point just what he stands to lose if he can't open up.
We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails |
User
I don't want to sabotage Louise's thread with my thoughts. But if the man has lost his libido for whatever reason ie treatment or the psychological impact of treatment I think it would be difficult to engage in love making of any kind. So I'm not sure it's about the man not wanting to or not willing to give pleasure if he wanted to, its more about being unable to in the way he would want to or used to.
Bri
User
Originally Posted by: Online Community MemberI don't want to sabotage Louise's thread with my thoughts. But if the man has lost his libido for whatever reason ie treatment or the psychological impact of treatment I think it would be difficult to engage in love making of any kind. So I'm not sure it's about the man not wanting to or not willing to give pleasure if he wanted to, its more about being unable to in the way he would want to or used to.
Bri
Yup, you're right. And it's about the fear too.
User
Hi Louise,
You have been given some really good and helpful advice both from the Guys and the Girls my take on this is coming from a different perspective . Remember the old saying Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, us girls we like to chat don't we , we like to hash over emotions , what he said, what she said, does he still love me, why did he say that you know the kind of thing . That is the way our brains work, we are complicated if there is a problem we like to talk about it and find solutions and then talk about it some more because just maybe we can find a better solution . (A bit like dress shopping , we never buy in the first shop but always end up back in the first shop after checking out every other option)http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif
This is going to be a bit long winded but bear with me.
And then there are the Guys , first shop , first rail yep that will do home now to watch the football.
I am not really sure about the advice to TALK because in my experience this always ends in disaster quite simply Guys don't like talking . They don't get it , us Ladies always want to make them like us , we want them to open up , and share, a problem halved and all that.
ED and Men well it is not a combination that goes together, we can make all of the right noises and tell them how much we understand when the truth is we don't understand, how could we ever understand. Men are connected to there Willy's , there whole life revolves around it , it is what defines them as men. Go right back to cave paintings and yes they all have erections. http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif
No wonder your OH doesn't want to TALK about it his sense of failure must be immense. Sometimes we want our men to talk because that is how we deal with things , we force them to be more in tune with there feminine side and then we moan because they are not manly enough. (I don't know how you guys put up with us )http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif
Any way after my long winded natter http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif . It is self confidence that your OH needs way before jumping him in the shower, sometimes taking a back seat and not confronting things will give better results than trying to force an issue. Then of course if that doesn't work then there is always the (make him think it was his idea first routine )http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif
I really hope that you can find a solution , extra advice would be to just let nature take it's course. Life has a funny old way of working out .
BFN
Julie X
Edited by member 01 Jun 2015 at 21:49
| Reason: Not specified
NEVER LAUGH AT A LIVE DRAGON |
User
"Men are connected to their willies; their whole life revolves around it"
I splurted my tea .... white linen trousers ruined ☕️
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard
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Julie
You are so right. And I am so grateful to you for writing this. It is him down to a T.
I am frightened we are not talking about it because I feel I need to. I don't seem to be appreciating that he is maybe just as frightened about talking.
I have decided to let it alone until we see the ED nurse on 17th June. He's had a good day today- has spent the day mainly driving, so hardly any leakage at all- so he's in a good mood tonight.
thank you for your input. It has made so much sense
Louise
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Sorry Lyn, another outfit ruined if you pm me I will send you my bank details and I will pay your dry cleaning bill's for the last 2 years.http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif
Many of my girlfriends , scratch that ALL of my girl friends ring and say we need your help (I should have been an agony Aunt) the calls generally go something like this.
Anyway I said to him , I need to talk. His reply OK what do you want to talk about, her reply what does he mean by that
Anyway We should talk, his reply OK what do you want to talk about, her reply what does he mean by that
What we need to do is talk about this, his reply OK what do you want to talk about, her reply what does he mean by that
If we could just talk about this, his reply OK what do you want to talk about, her reply what does he mean by that
There is no point ignoring me, we need to talk about this. his reply OK what do you want to talk about, her reply what does he mean by that
Are you listening to me , We need to talk , his reply OK what do you want to talk about, her reply forget it I knew you weren't listening.
And so it goes on, then they say anyway we talked (and then he fell asleep what do you think he meant by that) ?
I hope you are smiling at this point guys.http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif Because you are all thinking sorry my Willy was talking to me and I didn't hear a word you said .http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif.
Sorry to hijack your post Louise , be patient if he can't , won't or is unable to Talk at this moment , he will do just let him do it in his own time. Men and there Willies have a life of there own.http://community.prostatecanceruk.org/editors/tiny_mce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif all will be OK .
BFN
Julie X
NEVER LAUGH AT A LIVE DRAGON |