I'm interested in conversations about and I want to talk about
Know exactly what you want?
Show search

Notification

Error


Help With Decision

User
Posted 11 May 2020 at 21:48

So many wrongs in one post. Apart from my quarterly bloods I’m loving being a jaffa. I don’t have to watch the  good lady take her smarties anymore. I would have loved to have had kids but missed that being a lad over the years. But now thanks to the Prof and Da Vinci Xi our nocturnal life has never been better. 🤷🏼‍♂️👀🥴🤔

User
Posted 11 May 2020 at 21:51

Hugely disappointed my video footage failed. First words at 7am next day when the prof did his rounds were how to fill the upcoming family Sunday matinee 🤖🤠🤷🏼‍♂️🤪

User
Posted 10 Jun 2020 at 21:26

Hi all. Reading your posts with interest ....

In a nutshell, I'm 58 with PSA level of 7.2. Gleeson score of 6 (3+3) and T3a.

Consultant outlined options to be surgery or radiotherapy.  My case is being discussed again on Friday and consultant to phone again next week to confirm they still feel it to be T3a (it would seem that the 2 biopsies I've had aren't entirely conclusive).

I'm now struggling with which way to jump ... part of me thinks that surgery would give a better outcome, but it also seems so final ... and I'm worried about side effects. But radiotherapy doesn't seem much better ...

Appreciate this is all so personal, but any comments gratefully received!!

User
Posted 12 Jun 2020 at 15:35

Hi Andrew

Sorry for the delay in responding. 

Please feel free to check my profile and surgery journey thread.

I'm 52 and last September got diagnosed with Gleason 6(3+3) T1c with PSA 5.6.

Its one hell of a journey with massive decisions for sure. In my case I had 3T mpMRI which came back PiRADS 4 with suspect areas. A TPM showed multiple tumours in all 4 areas of the prostate although thought localised and early stage.

At the time it was quite a shock. Did the usual with asking my local surgeon about all the options from AS, Surgical, HIFU, NanoKnife, Radiotherapy, Brachytherapy, Proton Beam, Focal Laser etc etc. Most were off the table as I have multifocal disease. 

While waiting for the London MDT to review I made a point of going away....gettting blasted on beer/wine for a few days which worked well to clear my head. Then a sat down with my ex, who is an immunologist, and went through all the science and histopathology to understand what I dealing with and try an articulate some of the risks with a hope to choosing a pathway with best outcome. 

I found several papers which went through all the pathology of cancer and how it evolves over time. What I wanted to understand was even though my tumours were early stage is there any likelihood of migration plus probability of as yet undiscovered area's of higher grade cancer. 

I found several papers which mentioned in active surveillance studies it has been shown metastases had occurred. Also there was early evidence that low grade cancer, although very stable in situ, can give rise to spread. This research is still fairly recent so more data needs to be collected in terms of were the type 3 cells directly involved in the spread or were there clinically undetectable regions of higher grade involved. 

At this point it was looking like surgery was the only sensible option in my case. However, I was mindful of impact in terms of ED, being sterile and possible incontinence. 

The next step was a second opinion. I looks high and low for well known high volume (>100 prostatectomys per year)  surgeons with greats stats. Fortunately I reached out on this discussion forum and via my local support group. This proved invaluable and for me a game changer.

Via several folks on here and in my local area I found a great surgeon based up at London Bridge (via private) - Prof Whocannotbenamedonhere. I did the usual extensive checks outside the personal recommendation and his credentials ticked all the right boxes plus I learnt about a relatively new approach to prostatectomy - retzius sparing robotic assisted radical prostatectomy + NeuroSAFE. 

This appeared to mitigate most of my concerns around potential post-op continence although ED issues still seemed to be a factor which was mixed. NeuroSAFE made a lot of sense in terms of optimum margins as a pathologist analyses' your prostate resections in real time while you are on the surgical table thus increasing chances of proper safe margins. 

I met up with the Prof first week of November and from the moment I met him knew he was the surgeon I wanted operating in such a high risk area. He agreed with my concerns that even though I had low grade gleason 6 cancer early studies showed its not as safe as one might hope. Plus in my case as all four quadrants were involved its likely ~60% that post surgery my histology would be upgraded.

I booked surgery for end of November. Went in the night before and stayed at a hotel next door then it was 7am check-in for surgery. Everything was very smooth end to end. During surgery it was found that the tumours were more extensive than had been shown via biopsy/MRI so following a couple of cautionary flags from NeuroSAFE one nerve bundle was partially taken and a bit more tissue at the base. So in effect my surgery was 3/4 retzius sparing and 1/4 alt retzius. Given it was slightly more complex made me even more thankful I had found one of the top UK/EU surgeons and he was confident of a good outcome. 

Post surgery I had no pain and was also lucky to not need a stomach drain as there was no significant bleeding to manage. The prof mentioned my timing for having surgery couldnt have been better as the cancer was very close to breaking through the capsule and had I waited a few more months might have been a totally different story.

Couple of days later I was released and then I had the wait for post surgery histology results. As it turned out these were very good and showed all margins clear. Final grading was G7(3+4) T2c. So the profs hunch there would be medium grade tumour was correct and hopefully removed before any micro metastasis had occured....time will tell.

I made a good recovery. Urinary catheter was out after 14 days and i had pretty good continence from the outset. A few leaks and drips until week 5 where the surgical stitches start to soften and allow the sphincter to close more completely. Up to week 12 I had a few stress leaks. A couple of partial wettings at night after a shin full of beer. But other than that totally dry and not used pads since week 7 albeit for PSA testing when I am so nervous I dont trust my bladder until its over :-)

To my delight very early on post op I started to see signs the old chap wasn't flaccid after all and there were signs of life. 4 weeks after surgery I was able to have penetrative sex and to date have good performance. I would say tiredness affects its more than pre-op. But if I'm awake and refreshed its as good as before. Add 2.5mg tadalafil to the mix and the performance of my twenties returns.

Only glitches I've had are pelvic floor discomfort which will settle over time. Please a couple of bladder voiding issue which were concerning at the time but I isolated the triggers...coffee/hot curry. Since then its settled.

PSAs since have been undetectable so thus far my outcome has exceeded my expectations.

Obviously with any surgery the outcomes vary on a case by case basis. For me Retzius Sparing RARP + NeuroSAFE worked very well plus the choice is surgeon was a game changer. Longer term who knows but for now its positive and a totally different place to where I was pre-surgery.

Shout or PM if you need more but I hope this helps give some reassurance and detail which can be fed into the mix with your decision process.

Simon

 

User
Posted 12 Jun 2020 at 15:56

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member

In a nutshell, I'm 58 with PSA level of 7.2. Gleeson score of 6 (3+3) and T3a.

Consultant outlined options to be surgery or radiotherapy.  My case is being discussed again on Friday and consultant to phone again next week to confirm they still feel it to be T3a (it would seem that the 2 biopsies I've had aren't entirely conclusive).

I'm now struggling with which way to jump ... part of me thinks that surgery would give a better outcome, but it also seems so final ... and I'm worried about side effects. But radiotherapy doesn't seem much better ...

It is usually the scans that determine whether a man is T2 or T3a - but if they are looking at your biopsies again, it may be that some of the cores were showing cancer right at the top of the sample. If it is indeed a T3a, I think your doctors will explain that although RP and RT seem quite final, you actually need a (hopefully) quite final intervention. Sometimes, a man with G6 will be encouraged to look at active surveillance or less radical treatments but T3 is not to be messed with. 

As I just posted elsewhere, the hierarchy of decision making could be described as 

- with the advice of the MDT, choose the treatment that gives you the best chance of full remission

- decide whether you can live with the known and potential side effects - if yes, happy days

- if no, work out which side effects are least acceptable to you and then opt for the treatment that minimises these risks while still giving a reasonable chance of remission

Some side effects are guaranteed for any treatment - dry orgasms (sooner or later) and being infertile, for example - while others are more likely with some treatments than others. But keep in mind that one potential side effect of treatment is to get rid of the cancer. The PCUK toolkit includes a pros/cons sheet to help you prioritise the different side effects or treatment. 

"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." Soren Kierkegaard

User
Posted 12 Jun 2020 at 16:01

Hi Andrew. Apologies for delayed response.

I have found the decision very difficult. In the end I have opted for surgery. If the cancer is contained, then hopefully  the surgery will be the end to it. If not, then there is the option of RT and HT. 

I was told that if I went down the RT route then it would be with 3 years HT, and didn't fancy that as my first option.

All the best with your decision.

J

User
Posted 14 Jun 2020 at 10:50

Time for an update (14/6/2020). I will also add to my profile.

I've been on 150mg/day of Bicalutamide for just over 8 weeks. My observations of side affects:

1/ Very tired some days. Usually solved with a nap.

2/ Feeling sick on the odd days. Car sick feeling too. 

3/ Libido much reduced. Also much more difficult to get and maintain erections. Orgasm's weaker.

4/ Weight increasing gradually and particularly around chest. Nipples sensitive.

All in all not too bad, but I wouldn't like to be long term on HT. On a positive note, I have a surgery date of 25th June.

J

User
Posted 14 Jun 2020 at 13:57

Hope all goes well on 25th June. You will be glad to get that over and done with.

Ido4

User
Posted 15 Jun 2020 at 15:02

Thanks Ido4. Got to say I am dreading the surgery.

J

User
Posted 15 Jun 2020 at 15:50

I had the surgery March 2019...all told despite some discomfort and a few changes I have recovered very well! I would try not to worry too much if you can...they will look after you and then you can start getting back to as near normal as possible!

User
Posted 15 Jun 2020 at 15:59

As Mark says it’s not as bad as you think. All over pretty quickly and you are home before you know it. Recommend taking some lactulose with you just in case you get constipation. Full length size zip trousers are good for management catheter bag on the way home post op. I wore mine all the time until it was removed at 14 days. Get a Builders bucket to stand you bag and stand in at night as keeps it extra stable. I also got waterproof protectors and tena sheets for the bed but did need them. If you are going private recommend a media player with extension power adapter and long hdmi lead :-)

Please keep us posted.

Simon

User
Posted 15 Jun 2020 at 16:42

Good luck. I had my RP March 23rd- so 12 weeks ago today. As others have said its not too bad- just take it easy afterwards. I'm running and cycling again and life just about back to normal.

User
Posted 15 Jun 2020 at 16:49

I am back to full speed now but it took around 9 months or so for me to get to this point (30 mins exercise a day plus golf twice a week) as I had a couple of set-backs. It may take longer than 3 months but things will get to normal...main thing is not to rush it and allow the body to heal! I think I rushed at the start and should have heeded my own advice but then hindsight is a wonderful thing!!

User
Posted 16 Jun 2020 at 08:31

It's one hell of a decision to make, but your thread shows that you have weighed up the options and have chosen your treatment which is a huge step forward. As always, great advice from fantastic people on this forum. 

At least now you can focus on the 25th and your recovery.

Good luck!

Kev.

User
Posted 16 Jun 2020 at 11:44

Thanks: MarkBerks, Techguy, MikeW, KevT.

That is all very reassuring. I will certainly provide updates on everything goes.

J

User
Posted 17 Jun 2020 at 08:57

Good luck and don’t worry too much...it will go well :-)

Cheers,

Mark

User
Posted 18 Jun 2020 at 21:45

I am 63. My RP was done sept 18. I was T3. All my follow up tests have undetectable PSA. I now live a normal live as if it never happened. Even my ED is dissipating and I can now have penetrative sex (took at least 12 months to come back to life lost about 60% of nerves). Keep exercising and do your pelvic floor exercises - a great investment into future recovery. For actual recovery be patient, follow the guidance given, start walking early in recovery but don’t over do it. When the nurses advise restart pelvic floor exercises - the stronger these muscles are the better your bladder control. Any pain is treatable by paracetamol- after 3 days post surgery you’ll see daily improvement.

i have not regretted my decisions.

User
Posted 19 Jun 2020 at 06:50

Thanks A John. Just what I needed. On my way for pre-op.

J

User
Posted 19 Jun 2020 at 16:42

Good luck J ... hope all goes well next week.

Andrew

User
Posted 19 Jun 2020 at 16:57

Hi Simon,

My apologies for delay in replying - not been on the internet much over last week.

Thanks so much for the info.  It's interesting to read your journey to date along with your decision process.  Both consultants (Oncolgy & Surgery) I've spoken to seem to be saying that surgery is my best option.  That's probably my favoured route ... if that's the right word!!  But I'm also in the process of arranging a second opinion from a very good consultant surgeon in Manchester.  He works at The Christie Hospital and has been recommended to me by a friend.

I'm hoping to be able to make a decision in the next couple of weeks and then get it over with!!

Thanks again Simon - it is very much appreciated.

Best wishes,

Andrew

 
Forum Jump  
©2025 Prostate Cancer UK