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Enzalutamide causing pain??

User
Posted 17 Jul 2015 at 21:34
I just wanted to let you all know the update on my dad. I think it is better news than we thought yesterday. Still not good but I don't think now we are going to loose him just yet.

The cancer has got a lot worse his prostate, pelvis and his bones but has not spread in to any organs. He went for a MRI scan today on his spine, This wasn't great news. The cancer of the prostate and pelvis is pressing in his spinal chord which is causing so much pain. This is actually quite serious as any wrong move could paralyse him. So with immediate effect he had to lie flat on his back and not move at all and on Monday he will start an intense course of radiotherapy on his spine to try and get the cancer away from his spine.

It really isn't good news for him but I don't think we are going to loose him in days which it felt like last night. If Mo could please give me her thoughts on this, it would be much appreciated as I felt relieved earlier but I'm still very scared and don't know what to think as like I said yesterday, I was told you can't die from prostate cancer it has to spread to organs first but I don't know what to think. The cancer is obviously very active at the moment as it has got worse even with all the treatment he has had x

User
Posted 17 Jul 2015 at 21:35
I just wanted to let you all know the update on my dad. I think it is better news than we thought yesterday. Still not good but I don't think now we are going to loose him just yet.

The cancer has got a lot worse his prostate, pelvis and his bones but has not spread in to any organs. He went for a MRI scan today on his spine, This wasn't great news. The cancer of the prostate and pelvis is pressing in his spinal chord which is causing so much pain. This is actually quite serious as any wrong move could paralyse him. So with immediate effect he had to lie flat on his back and not move at all and on Monday he will start an intense course of radiotherapy on his spine to try and get the cancer away from his spine.

It really isn't good news for him but I don't think we are going to loose him in days which it felt like last night. If Mo could please give me her thoughts on this, it would be much appreciated as I felt relieved earlier but I'm still very scared and don't know what to think as like I said yesterday, I was told you can't die from prostate cancer it has to spread to organs first but I don't know what to think. The cancer is obviously very active at the moment as it has got worse even with all the treatment he has had x

User
Posted 17 Jul 2015 at 21:37

Glad the news is relatively better than earlier Indigo.

I'm sure Mo will be along to help you. She knows a lot about it.

Try and get some rest. Your mum and dad need you.

Here's hoping the radiotherapy on Monday helps him. At least he is in the best place and they have acted promptly.

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 18 Jul 2015 at 20:56
Indigo

hi, I wish you had private messaged me as I would have got an e amil to let me know you needed something, I have been away for 24 hours so I really am sorry I missed you last night.

Ok so you know I am quite forthright and would never intentionally mislead you so here is my take on what is happening with your Dad. I can try and put this into non medical jargon hoping it makes it easier for you to uderstand and relate to.

The first thing is that no spread to any vital organs is good, very good

the second thing is that the scans have shown that your Dad is probably having a spinal cord compression or SCC, I mentioned this condition to you on an earlier reply. This is quite common for men with prostate cancer where the cancer has spread into the spine. There are 3 main areas this can effect and each has different symptoms and outcomes. It sounds as though your Dad has his in the lower to mid lumbar region ie down low in his back. This would cause weak legs and difficulty walking, it is also incredibly painful as the tumour/s press against the nerves inside the spinal cord. The other two most likely areas for this are in the mid to upper back and the lower neck. It does not sound as though that is the case for your Dad so we can skip those for now. It is a very serious condition, indeed if left untreated in can cause paralysis and all that goes with that and in really severe cases even death.

Thankfully the hospital team must have partly guessed this and ordered all the tests to prove their thinking. That will be why they have stopped the enzalutamide for now as your Dad needs to undergo some fairy intensive treatment that is both physically and mentally taxing so he needs all his strength for that.

The normal course of action will be to immobilse your Dad as much as possible by telling him he has to stay flat on his back with no raising of the bed at all, this can be for 10 days or more and it is really hard for a patient. If you can imagine only being able to view the world from one aspect you get a bit of a fixation on any lights or marks on the ceiling. Also trying to eat or drink flat on your back is really hard, we have to be trained just how to feed a patient in that prone position. You and your Mum might like to get one of the nurses to show you how so that you can help at meal times. Also Dad will recognise your voices but will not be able to see your face so when you visit make sure you go close up and give him a kiss so he can look at you.

The next thing will be that he will have a lot of things done for him in terms of washing etc. he will be able and allowed to help with things like washing his face and hands, brushing his teeth etc. and maybe shaving, if he has been used to doing that all for himself and in his own bathroom then this change can be a bit frustrating.

Your Mum will be allowed to help if that is what she and your Dad want. Just to bear in mind this is a completely unnatural position to be in for so long, it is really hard so anything to relieve the boredom is good. Radio better than TV and having people around to stop him from trying to sit up a bit also helps. As treatment progresses he will slowly be allowed to sit up just a little tiny bit at a time though.

His treatment will start immediately with what is called an RT planning session the Radiology team will have your Dad slid onto the scanner bed so that they can pinpoint the exact areas that need treating, this is all done with very advanced computer imaging and the scans that were done earlier this week. They will mark up points on his body where the RT beams need to be focused these marks are called tatoos but they are really made with a special marker pen and dye unlike ink tatoos they do fade away with time. Indeed when washing or being washed the area of these marks will be avoided so as not to erase them at all. There may be 2 or more of these and they look a bit like a target cross.

Next stage is for probably 5 doses of Radiotherapy one done every day for 5 days.

This is a painless procedure albeit the movement and transfer will be very uncomfortable for your Dad so he may be given extra pain medication to achieve this.

He will also probably be fitted for a specialist back brace for after the RT, these look really uncomfortable but I am assured that they really feel great and are very supportive during recovery from this kind of problem. This will be worn whenever Dad is going to be moved until such time that the medical team are happy that he no longer needs it. This could be weeks it could be months and in some rare cases needed indefinitely.

Once again the good news is that it sounds as though your Dad had this picked up in good time so there may not have been any spinal compromise. If all the RT goes well and Dad responds positively to it then with lots of Physiotherapy and a great deal of patience he should be back on his feet again in a few weeks maybe even less.

Once you know how things are progressing I will be here to answer any questions you might have.

Dad may also have his medication changed a little with a new pain medication that specifically targets nerve pain being added maybe a drug called Lyrica.

He will be very tired, possibly a bit grumpy, possibly off his food (though you should encourage him to eat or use the high protein drinks the hospital will provide) so just be patient with him.

As for hospice, hospital or at home when the time comes, we can talk about that when and if it becomes necessary right now you focus on looking after your Mum who has bottled all this fear and anxiety up probably to help protect you, and of course your Dad.

You sound such a lovely lass so thankyou for caring so much to be posting here.

I hope this is not too much onformation for you all in one go

I will be thinking of you

best wishes

xx

Mo

Edited by member 18 Jul 2015 at 21:01  | Reason: Not specified

User
Posted 18 Jul 2015 at 21:15
Hi Mo, thank you again for taking your time to come back to me. I'm not actually all that sure how this forum worlds so hopefully this will come straight to you.

Yes everything you have said is what the Drs have told us and he started his radiotherapy today. They said it is a very high dose so he will be extremely tired.

On Thursday night, I felt like I was going to loose my dad imminently buy now I don't think that is the case, however I do feel he is in a very bad way. His PSA level is 97 which is still going up even though he is having all the treatment. They said the cancer is very bad in his pelvis, prostate and his bones.

Mo please be honest with me and tell me your thoughts, do you think he is probably losing his fight?? My mum doesn't want to ask the Drs the question and I have to respect her wishes but I am different to my mum, I need to know things. I need to know what I am dealing with to be able to cope.

Mo I really do appreciate the info and your advice so much. It really has been a very difficult week xx

User
Posted 19 Jul 2015 at 07:24

There you are Indigo I told you Mo would know. Why not message Mo directly so she can give you a personal answer.
Go to Mo's avatar picture, it will bring up her profile.
Within that profile is a "message " box which should go direct.

Good luck and best wishes.

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 19 Jul 2015 at 09:40
Indigo

I have sent you a private message (PM) you should get a little box pop up when you log in that says you have a private message would you like to open it now yes or no. Also it will show in the menu as inbox (1) if you click on the tab it will take you to your message. If you have set up your e mail address it will also send you an e mail letting you know you have a new private message from Edamo.

If you do not get this let me know on here

xx

Mo

User
Posted 20 Jul 2015 at 19:30
So on the emotional roller coaster with my dad. He's had a really good couple of days, had three lots of radiotherapy already to his spine but today he was very confused. He was shouting for my mum and trying to get out of bed saying he'd lost her and couldn't find her but she was sat next to him. He's been like that for over a week but is getting worse and today really bad. Does anyone know what could be causing this to happen?? Xx
User
Posted 20 Jul 2015 at 20:43
Indigo

it is very likely that your Dad has been having some very strong but short duration pain medications to allow staff to move him from his bed to the special RT bed and back without actually causing any unnecessary distress. These can cause confusion and slightly irrational behaviour.

The RT is very intense and at quite a high dose but in itself unlikely to cause the confusion. However as I mentioned to you before being laid flat on your back unable to move or change your visual focus and perhaps in pain can be really hard to take mentally. In some extreme cases patients are actually sedated to help with this.

He may also have an infection, this is also very common in a lower lumbar SCC, usually a urinary infection but sometimes one in the bowel or gut. this is usually down to the nerves that are affected stopping the urges to urinate or defacate so things back up and infection can occur. You may find that Dad is being given meds to help him with normal bowel function, I am assuming he has a catheter to take care of urinary function?

All of these things are normally temporary and improve rapidly once the 5 doses of RT are finished if they succeed in shrinking the tumour/s that are causing the SCC.

I know it is hard but give this intensive treatment a chance to work before you get too distressed.

Thinking of you

xx

Mo

User
Posted 21 Jul 2015 at 07:23

Excellent advice from Mo as usual.

Keep focussed on the benefits for now. Tell yourself this has to happen to your dad to make him feel better.

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 21 Jul 2015 at 21:31
Thank you again Mo,

We have had another very difficult day with dad. He is extremely confused and hasn't really stopped talking all day but complete nonsense talk. He was talking with his eyes closed and was talking slurred. The Dr thought it would be best to do a scan on his brain so he went and had that done. Luckily the scan came back clear. I think the Drs are concerned what is causing the confusion. I have googled his symptoms and to me it sounds like he has Dilirium.

My poor dad seams to be not wanting to give up but all this is happening to him.

Why is life so cruel. I don't want to loose him but I hate seeing what the cancer is doing to him too. I just want my old amazing dad back xxx

User
Posted 21 Jul 2015 at 22:38
Indigo

if the CAT scan came back clear that is good, I still think the confusion and delirium could be due to meds, infection or an abnormal reading on something like Haemaglobin,Potassium, Calcium or magnesium. Have they done blood tests for all his normal blood functionality. You could try asking them if he has a problem in his bloodwork.

I think tomorrow should be the last RT they may want to see how he settles down 24 hrs or so after that.

I think you deserve a better explanation on just what is causing this so keep asking.

It is really hard seeing your lovely Dad suffer like this and it does make you wish it was either all over or all sorted out but sadly it doesn't happen just like that. I know this is a tough ask but you need to just focus on being there for him and give this another few days to go one way or another.

I will be thinking of you and wishing you as much strength as possible

xx

Mo

User
Posted 23 Jul 2015 at 16:38
Hi Mo,

I'm sorry I haven't replied back to you. It's been such a roller coaster.

My dads confusion has got s lot better, he's not completely back to normal but he seams a lot better in himself. He finished his radiotherapy yesterday and today the physio have got him up in chair eh in is much better for him.

But we were dealt with another blow today. Although on Tuesday we were told that dad's ct scan had come back clear, the full report has come back showing that yes the brain is cancer free but he has cancer in his skull. This has come as a big shock to us as we were told it had come back clear. The Dr is going to talk to us tomorrow as to what this means.

Not sure if this is something you have any knowledge on??

Feeling completely drained with all the ups and downs with all this xx

User
Posted 23 Jul 2015 at 16:48

This is a horrible roller coaster ride isn't it Indigo.

I am so sorry that your dad has even more problems.

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow

Best Wishes

We can't control the winds - but we can adjust our sails
User
Posted 23 Jul 2015 at 18:37
Hi Indigo firstly it is good that your Dad is getting less confused and that his RT is completed. It is even better news that the Physios are allowing him to be moved already. Usually after an SCC there is a period of complete immobility while things settle down so the medics must be confident that it is it safe to move him. That suggests that maybe the SCC was caught before it actually happened i.e it was nearly compressed but not quite. That is really positive news.

The scan your Dad had done will look at two areas, the brain itself and also the skull. Cancer in the brain as a secondary to PCa is what is called spread to soft tissue as you will know the brain itself is soft tissue and is one of our vital organs. Mets in the skull are the same as mets in the ribs or any other bones. It is quite common for them to appear in the skull at some stage. So try not to fret too much just yet. Listen to what the doctors tell you and then ask as many questions of them as you need to. Things like what problems those mets could cause like headaches What treatments are they going to consider next etc?.

It is a horrid roller coaster, we all tend to describe it in those exact words, so we do know just how hard it is for you and your Mum watching your Dad's health go up and down sometimes all in the same day.

Know that we are thinking of you

xx

Mo

User
Posted 23 Jul 2015 at 19:37
Mo thank you so much again, you have no idea how much of a help you are to me right now. Everything we need to know or not sure about I only have to ask you and you have the answer.

I think I need to just focus on each day at a time for now xx

User
Posted 23 Jul 2015 at 21:36

Hi Indigo.

I am so glad that Mo has come along and helped you , she is pretty FAB we call each other SS , Soul Sisters (sometimes we make such strong friends on here that go way beyond the call of duty).

I just wanted you to know that many people read posts but don't always reply , it is sometimes very difficult for those (not in the met camp) to reply and offer support so as a fellow met camp person . I understand what you are going through. Trevor has daughters and in the not too distant future we will be where you are know. Yes what a roller coaster but what a lovely daughter you are .  I am so glad that you found this site and I so hope that we can be a support when you need us.

BFN

Julie X

NEVER LAUGH AT A LIVE DRAGON
User
Posted 23 Jul 2015 at 22:24
Aw Julie SS

I love you so much, we of course know just how painful this road is so any help or advice or just plain comfort, virtual hugs you name it we have got it.

Indigo I know you have already met my soul sister Julie , we are the best of friends all through this horrid disease and thank our lucky stars through this forum, which is kind of weird but just goes to show how much friendship, kindness and plain luviness brings us all together when we most need it.

we are here for you

xx

Mo

User
Posted 24 Jul 2015 at 16:23

Originally Posted by: Online Community Member
I just wanted you to know that many people read posts but don't always reply

Indigo, I'm one of those. I've read all your posts but from my experiences of PCa to date there is nothing I can contribute to help you. However, even though I can't contribute doesn't mean I don't care. What I can do is tell you I care and hope you and your Mum and Dad find a path to see you through this horrible time.

ColU

User
Posted 24 Jul 2015 at 20:04
Ahh thank you for taking your time to reply. It means an awful lot. Don't know how i would have coped these last 10 days without this site. I have the most amazing friends who have helped me a lot, picking my children up from school etc which I am very grateful but this site has kept me going through really difficult times. It has helped me understand things and allowed me to ask the questions that I was afraid to ask out loud.

I'm just sorry that a lot of replys I have had is through people's experience. It's a very cruel disease.

 
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